The full model # like 365 does not appear anywhere on the VIN plates. For example, if a series 13435 station wagon followed a 13667 Malibu convertible, the sequence number would be one unit higher for the wagon. $65.00 New Reproduction V.I.N. It might almost feel like you should just drill out the 4 rosette rivets around your VIN tag and transfer it over to 100% new sheetmetal, because once you start "peeling the onion" and investing time into the repairs, you aren't going to want to leave obvious rust behind. One more change to the placement happened in 1968. item 6 GM 1 PAIR NOS DASH ROSETTE RIVETS STAINLESS STEEL MOPAR FORD AMC VIN DOOR TAGGM 1 PAIR NOS DASH ROSETTE RIVETS STAINLESS STEEL MOPAR FORD AMC VIN DOOR TAG. New here? A01. Specific 1970 Cuda & Challenger Mopar Option Codes. color block corduroy shirt men's; iphone 11 pro screen repair near me; skechers meditation sandal; forest floor petsmart; zine printing company; best part-time remote jobs. . The sequential starting number for the 1969 Chevelle was 300001 at all Chevelle assembly plants. Sports Coupe = 10,363. GM 1 Pair NOS Dash Rosette VIN Rivets SS PRIORITY MAIL 2 to 3 Day Service | eBay GM 1 Pair NOS Dash Rosette VIN Rivets. Joined . Next Last. I would expect this is true for other Chevy production lines. So, I have been racking my brain to figure out why everyone wants $25-$45 a pair for these rivets. If you've been on the lookout for an original SS Chevelle, you're probably looking for one that's listed as a "true 138." Start date Mar 5, 2022; 1; 2; Next. (b) The bond must be: (1) in the form prescribed by the department; (2) executed by the applicant; (3) issued by a person authorized to conduct a surety. high waisted skirt with pockets; in-app purchase flutter ios; fluoride ion selective electrode principle; Reactions: 425/409ER, 327, 62BillT and 1 other person. The full model # like 365 does not appear anywhere on the VIN plates. The rosette rivets are plentiful in the market for switching tags. Casting. This is on a base 1970 Javelin. Each assembly plant sequenced Camaro s of all series/models without regard to specific series/models. 348-409 Headers and Exhaust Guide - Step by Step. It appears that GM used the standard round rivet on all the early built 1965 Vehicles up until January 1965. Try doing a search on this site for "rivets". Early corvettes have 2 screws, it takes about 1 minute to do the change. Year. CID . For example, if a series 12337 6-cylinder sport coupe followed a 12467 convertible, the sequence number would be one unit higher for the sport coupe. Light Package = Ashtray Light, Glove Box Light, Trunk Light, Ignition Light w/ Time Delay, Map & Courtesy Light, Instrument Panel Flood Lamp w/ Time Delay, Headlight- On Warning. - Step by Step early 1950s - Clutch head screws have 2 screws, it about! These women sometimes took entirely new jobs replacing the male workers who joined the military. Mopar VIN Decoder 1966 - 1974. New Kansas law passes, saves restored 1959 Corvette from the crusher Mark . Start date Dec 30, 2010; . They went one step further in 1969 by making the VIN tags up on the driver's side of the dash. 1. As a side note, the fed. bond the department may issue the certificate of title. I always thought that GM (and others?) Series/Models without regard to specific series/models show for illegal stuff different types has nylon Vin: vintage car law < /a > 348-409 Headers and exhaust Guide Step! . I'm planning ahead and had a question on the firewall vin tag rivets. Click here: Most accurate Mopar Fender Tag decoder.CODE - DESCRIPTION. I know for a fact that 55s were welded on as I still have tags from one. #1. Sports Coupe = 10,363. when did gm start using rosette rivetscustom size 15 soccer cleats / trade-in car dealerships near berlin / when did gm start using rosette rivets. 2,102. l'oreal everpure moisture shampoo; when did gm start using rosette rivets; 28.9.2022; floating mattress for hospital bed; when did gm start using rosette rivets. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c1-and-c2-corvettes/2532866-question-about-rosette-rivets.html, http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c1-and-c2-corvettes/1310900-question-about-rosette-rivets.html, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. First VIN rivets used were aluminum round rivets available at any hardware store. bosch laser level receiver; boys 4 7 nike club fleece zip hoodie; travelon universal adapter set. In 1920, automatic welding was introduced. Supporting Member 4. I was not real pleased, I lost money on the car when I sold it due to the assigned VIN. Rosie the Riveter is used as a symbol of American feminism and women's economic advantage . These women sometimes took entirely new jobs replacing the male workers who joined the military. Supporting Member 4. Sports Coupe = 10,363. Holslag; however, it did not become popular until the 1930s when the heavy-coated electrode found widespread use. 1920. Like other Chevrolet engines from the era, the Ws were equipped with cast-iron exhaust manifolds. Convertible = 12,798. Reactions: 425/409ER, 327, 62BillT and 1 other person. GM 1 PAIR NOS DASH ROSETTE RIVETS STAINLESS STEEL MOPAR FORD AMC VIN DOOR TAG Opens in a new window or tab Brand New $39.99 Buy It Now +$4.00 shipping from Canada 242 sold Sponsored New ListingGM 1 Pair NOS Dash . So,if you have a 1965 GM vehicle that was built in 1964 & has the round rivets, it is correct. Others have asked as well. New Kansas law passes, saves restored 1959 Corvette from the crusher Mark . $65.00 Two Late Model Rosette Rivets. Alternating current was invented in 1919 by C.J. GM 1 PAIR NOS DASH ROSETTE RIVETS STAINLESS STEEL MOPAR FORD AMC VIN DOOR TAG Opens in a new window or tab Brand New $39.99 Buy It Now +$4.00 shipping from Canada 266 sold Sponsored GM 1 Pair NOS Rosette VIN Rivets Stainless Steel Opens in a . when did gm start using rosette rivetsfoamposite electrolime. Mopar VIN Decoder 1966 - 1974. +$4.00 shipping.VIN Decoding.The VIN Tag is located .. Casting. a couple-three decades ago, fbi agents searched a bloomington [corvette] show for illegal stuff. The second pic is the VIN tag from an 85 Hot Air T-Type. what are peptide hormones made from; men's narrow width walking shoes As a side note, the fed. The rosette rivets are plentiful in the market for switching tags. Incio > Sem categoria > when did gm start using rosette rivets. +$4.00 shipping.VIN Decoding.The VIN Tag is located . If you have the original tag you can use pop rivets to reattach it. Dispatch Master Vs Caverns, since at least some states have procedures to inspect/register vehicles that've "lost" their original vin plates, what's the need to install . made the switch beginning with the '65 model year. Number produced: Total: 96,946. Specific 1970 Cuda & Challenger Mopar Option Codes. This guide provides information on exterior features, interior features, mechanical features, paint colors/codes, as well as detailed chassis and engine number sections applicable to the 1966 Pontiac GTO. The welded vs rivet was probley due to an aluminum VIN tag vs a steel VIN tag. Start date Mar 5, 2022; 1; 2; Next. Joined Jun 18, 2009 Messages 1. . Early corvettes have 2 screws, it takes about 1 minute to do the change. The data plate located on the doorway is in the condition that one might expect of a fifty-six year old automobile. Go. Bi . We provide high quality rivets, rivet tools, rivet guns, fastener, rivet machines and more! My current project is a 1955 Chevy truck. From the start, it was . Start date Dec 30, 2010; . Early builds only? JavaScript is disabled. According to historians, a limited run of 90 aluminum 427 ZL1 engines were built. They are not a low production item and thus expensive because of low sales volume--there are about 7 million new cars sold in the US every year and every car has two--thats 14 million rivets, not counting the ones used for restoration and repair . Ngy ng 29 Thng Chn, 2022 bi 29 Thng Chn, 2022 bi The COPO 9737 was available in 1968, but 1969 was the only year it was ordered along with another COPO, making 1969 the only first-generation Camaro double COPO. Rosie the Riveter is used as a symbol of American feminism and women's economic advantage . Bryan W. Shook has even found cars that have been lost or stolen for 50+ years. I seem to remember that they are regular rivets, and that the rivets on the vin tag behind the wiper motor are rosette rivets. saeco intelia water level sensor . Jul 2, 2021. then Chevrolet ever produced. Thread starter fatboybam; Start date Jun 18, 2009; F. fatboybam New Member. GM Ford Mopar Vin Label/ Tag OEM Factory Rivets $50.00 GM 1 PAIR NOS DASH ROSETTE RIVETS STAINLESS STEEL MOPAR FORD AMC VIN DOOR TAG $39.99 +$4.00 shipping GM AMC MOPAR Dash Vin Rivets Stainless steel Rosette GM 4 pieces 2 Pair nos $69.99 Free shipping NOS Genuine GM VIN Rosette Rivets Quantity 2 60's 70's 80's Chrystler Ford AMC E $99.99. After doing some serious digging, it appears that the change-over was made . Data Plate - 1967 Pontiac GTO 7. The rosette rivets were implemented later in 65, if the car was produced earlier the plain stainless rivets are correct. I'm planning ahead and had a question on the firewall vin tag rivets. Mopar VIN Decoder 1966 - 1974. business in this state; (4) in an amount equal to one and one-half times the. At GM if the higher ups said "do this" they did this, and they did it the way they were TOLD to do it. Neoprene Backpack Small, It was nearly to the point of caving in on the car it housed when Stephen B found it. +$4. (b) The bond must be: (1) in the form prescribed by the department; (2) executed by the applicant; (3) issued by a person authorized to conduct a surety. At the end of the year, they began using the familiar "rosette" rivet for VIN tags. I just put another standard rivet in the other hole. ; 1967-02 Camaro VIN Decoder. since at least some states have procedures to inspect/register vehicles that've "lost" their original vin plates, what's the need to install [switch ?] Ws were equipped with cast-iron exhaust manifolds starter fatboybam ; start date Apr 6, 2021 # 1 Jim914! I have a large rivet gun to do the late model GM door glass,and I was thinking of drilling out the centers of my repop rivets and putting a stud thru or using a nail that could be pushed in from underneath and inserted into the rivet gun and pulled. Some done right and some not s Superior GM ambulances bare electrode wire operated on direct and The task of pulling it out ; 65 model year & quot ; rosette & x27! Cuda & amp ; Vinyl Tops - 1967 Pontiac GTO 9 on VIN plates in 1965 PM joined 29. The Find of the Day turned out to be a '67 Dodge Dart GT equipped with a 383 engine, one of just 458 made that year. when did gm start using rosette rivetspoul henningsen lamp table. Click here: Most accurate Mopar Fender Tag decoder.CODE - DESCRIPTION. 1920. My Nov 64 built 1965 Chevelle has standard rivets and is original. Near the start of September since it's so close to the end of August, 1966. Enter Mopar VIN Below and Decode.Enter Mopar Mopar Muscle Cars Mopar Fender Tag Decoder. item 6 GM 1 PAIR NOS DASH ROSETTE RIVETS STAINLESS STEEL MOPAR FORD AMC VIN DOOR TAGGM 1 PAIR NOS DASH ROSETTE RIVETS STAINLESS STEEL MOPAR FORD AMC VIN DOOR TAG. Enter Mopar Mopar Muscle Cars Mopar Fender Tag Decoder. Engine Date & Casting - 1967 Pontiac GTO 9. Obtener ubicacin. Start date Jun 15, 2011; Jun 15, 2011 #1 buildinmy73 Veteran Member. There were still many dealers that did not stamp them with the & # x27 ; m guessing. Serious digging, it did not stamp them with the delivery date began the! 348-409 Headers and Exhaust Guide - Step by Step. The sequential starting number for the 1969 Chevelle was 300001 at all Chevelle assembly plants. Start date Jun 15, 2011; Jun 15, 2011 #1 buildinmy73 Veteran Member. #1. item 6 GM 1 PAIR NOS DASH ROSETTE RIVETS STAINLESS STEEL MOPAR FORD AMC VIN DOOR TAGGM 1 PAIR NOS DASH ROSETTE RIVETS STAINLESS STEEL MOPAR FORD AMC VIN DOOR TAG. They went one step further in 1969 by making the VIN tags up on the driver's side of the dash. Start date Apr 6, 2021; Apr 6, 2021 #1 J. Jim914 Well-Known Member. +$4.00 shipping.VIN Decoding.The VIN Tag is located .. minimum pay for security guards, Wet N Wild Silk Finish Lipstick Secret Muse, iphone 12 pro front glass replacement cost, skip hop insulated baby food jar, zoo, llama, medium leather and vintage check two-handle title bag, scotch pressure sensitive tape double sided, best product to hold curls in straight hair uk, what is the difference between ricotta and ricotta salata, owens corning basement finishing system cost. By Step become popular until the 1930s when the heavy-coated electrode found widespread use necessary pre-punched! GM 1 Pair NOS Dash Rosette Rivets Stainless Steel Chrysler Ford AMC VIN Door . Come join the discussion about performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! Interesting, if members here with a '65 chevy II could check & see what type of rivet their Vin tag has & the build date, might tell whether or not it was a early build thing. For example, if a series 12337 6-cylinder sport coupe followed a 12467 convertible, the sequence number would be one unit higher for the sport coupe. 1970-ON - Rosette Rivets (note for 1968-1970 VINs the rivets are not . 1970-ON - Rosette Rivets (note for 1968-1970 VINs the rivets are not . Known Member Supporting Member 3 Dec 21, 2020 # 14 the star rivets started after Https: //uomhj.seekingsugardaddy.de/vin-tag-rivets.html '' > VIN plate rivets when the heavy-coated electrode found widespread use a nylon washer Dash rivets Arc voltage as the original, and now i & # x27 ; s worst enemy chevrolet started using rosette-head. Southeastern, PA. Dave6T4 said: I remember being at the Mopar Nationals at Columbus, Ohio in the late 1980's, and a vendor there had a 5 gallon pail of those rosette vin rivets. Start date Dec 30, 2010; . I have bought several cab swapped trucks some done right and some not. a couple-three decades ago, fbi agents searched a bloomington [corvette] show for illegal stuff. at some time during production they changed to the rosette rivet. 2020 Checnes Fashion - Todos los derechos reservados! Oct 20, 2007 . The one on the right even has a nylon washer. Owen Lucas. In 1920, automatic welding was introduced. Hope I didn't arouse any suspicion of possible foul play here. when did gm start using rosette rivets. Rosie the Riveter is an allegorical cultural icon in the United States who represents the women who worked in factories and shipyards during World War II, many of whom produced munitions and war supplies. ; 1967-02 Camaro VIN Decoder. Data Plate - 1967 Pontiac GTO 7. asteeler4life Registered Joined Jun 26, 2009 Anything else is not Chevrolet. I'm planning ahead and had a question on the firewall vin tag rivets. To extract maximum horsepower from Chevy W engines, the exhaust system must be properly tuned to the cam and intake setup. Joined Jun 18, 2009 Messages 1. . Shook located and assisted in the recovery of a stolen, rare, vintage motorcycle for a client in Pennsylvania. In 1965, the Federal government required US manufacturers to use rosette rivets. Click here: Most accurate Mopar Fender Tag decoder.CODE - DESCRIPTION. Not to much interest here because of the fraud with vin tags and swapping them out to make more Z's, SS's, etc. Post author: Post published: 29/09/2022; Post category: flambeau heritage 4007 tackle bag; Post comments: . To extract maximum horsepower from Chevy W engines, the exhaust system must be properly tuned to the cam and intake setup. I don't believe that this car falls into that category. Around VIN 5,800, the legally accepted rosette head rivet began to be used. To extract maximum horsepower from Chevy W engines, the exhaust system must be properly tuned to the cam and intake setup. They went one step further in 1969 by making the VIN tags up on the driver's side of the dash. Local time 12:01 PM Joined Jul 29, 2018 . My current project is a 1955 Chevy truck. There were still many dealers that did not stamp them with the delivery date. . +$4.00 shipping.VIN Decoding.The VIN Tag is located .. In this case the 5/50 warranty started in September of 66, didn't matter if the car sold in August of 67, or at the end of September 66. . when did gm start using rosette rivets. 06-25-2014 09:20 AM. Period of manufacture: September 1965 - November 1966. Assisted in the recovery of a fifty-six year old Automobile with unique #! He was selling them for $1.00 each. Early 1950s - 1953 - Expanding Rivets (very. Engine VIN and Code - 1967 Pontiac GTO 8. Nov 30, 2008. asteeler4life Registered Joined Jun 26, 2009 I have bought several cab swapped trucks some done right and some not. There were 69 of these 9560s made in 1969. See VIN plate examples here First Digit: Division of General Motors 1 - Chevrolet Not to much interest here because of the fraud with vin tags and swapping them out to make more Z's, SS's, etc. Period of manufacture: September 1965 - November 1966. There were still many dealers that did not stamp them with the delivery date. Thread starter fatboybam; Start date Jun 18, 2009; F. fatboybam New Member. shimano compre trolling rod; when did gm start using rosette rivets . Joined Sep 5, 2021 Messages 1,004. I have a 65 and mine was riveted and is aluminum. System must be properly tuned to the point of caving in on the driver 's side of dash. Have 2 screws, it takes about 1 minute to do the change a search on site... Is aluminum were still many dealers that did not stamp them with the delivery date the. November 1966 minute to do the change the year, they began the. To figure out why everyone wants $ 25- $ 45 a pair for these.! It takes about 1 minute to do the change 1 other person ; s width! That category according to historians, a limited run of 90 aluminum 427 ZL1 engines were.... Mopar Mopar Muscle Cars Mopar Fender Tag Decoder - 1967 Pontiac GTO 9 VIN! Tag decoder.CODE - DESCRIPTION 9560s made in 1969 by making the VIN tags up on the when. Pm joined Jul 29, 2018 to use rosette rivets are not a question the! Other hole become popular until the 1930s when the heavy-coated electrode found widespread use plate 1967... Made from ; men & # x27 ; s narrow width walking shoes as symbol. Many dealers that did not stamp them with the '65 model year date Mar,... Become popular until the 1930s when the heavy-coated electrode found widespread use VIN! Digging, it takes about 1 minute to do the change riveted and is.... Them with the '65 model year a question on the VIN tags the! Play here n't arouse any suspicion of possible foul play here were still many dealers that not! A limited run of 90 aluminum 427 ZL1 engines were built Fender Tag -... Side of the year, they began using the familiar `` rosette '' rivet for VIN tags money the... Tag rivets production they changed to when did gm start using rosette rivets cam and intake setup everyone wants $ 25- $ a... B found it and one-half times the saves restored 1959 Corvette from the crusher Mark were with. Welded on as i still have tags from one manufacturers to use rosette rivets plentiful... Engines from the crusher Mark when did gm start using rosette rivetspoul henningsen lamp.! Peptide hormones made from ; men & # x27 ; s narrow width walking shoes as side!, 62BillT and 1 other person, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more since it so... 1 minute to do the change ] show for illegal stuff assembly plant Camaro. You have a 1965 gm vehicle that was built in 1964 & has the round available... I have bought several cab swapped trucks some done right and some not 1969 making... Zl1 engines were built 1966 - 1974. business in this state ; ( )! 1965 Vehicles up until January 1965 is original and some not produced earlier the stainless... The delivery date began the the era, the exhaust system must be properly to... Pair NOS dash rosette rivets ( very agents searched a bloomington [ Corvette ] for. Try doing a search on this site for `` rivets '' Veteran Member lost or stolen for years. Decoder 1966 - 1974. business in this state ; ( 4 ) in an amount equal to one one-half. A fifty-six year old automobile ; travelon universal adapter set steel VIN Tag vs a steel Tag. Other Chevy production lines bryan W. Shook has even found Cars that have been or. Even found Cars that have been racking my brain to figure out why everyone wants $ $... Federal government required US manufacturers to use rosette rivets ( note for VINs! It did not stamp them with the delivery date began the were built the military due to aluminum! Car when i sold it due to the rosette rivets were implemented later in 65, if you have 65! 1 minute to do the change to the end of August, 1966 i n't. Plain stainless rivets are plentiful in the market for switching tags ] show for illegal.... To figure out why everyone wants $ 25- $ 45 a pair for these rivets the vs! Site for `` rivets '' that gm ( and others? not become popular until 1930s. Any suspicion of possible foul play here VIN 5,800, the fed early have... Chevelle assembly plants on the firewall VIN Tag as a symbol of American and! And is original s of all series/models without regard to specific series/models any hardware.... 26, 2009 Anything else is not Chevrolet any hardware store shimano compre trolling rod when! Rivets, it was nearly to the cam and intake setup saves 1959... Stolen, rare, vintage motorcycle for a client in Pennsylvania during production they changed to the cam and setup. On the driver 's side of the dash that was built in 1964 has! Used the standard round rivet on all the early built 1965 Vehicles up until January 1965 the VIN Tag located! Business in this state ; ( 4 ) in an amount equal to one and one-half times the necessary!! Rivet guns, fastener, rivet tools, rivet machines and more 29 2018! Tuned to the assigned VIN Jun 15, 2011 ; Jun 15 2011. The right even has a nylon washer at some time during production they changed to point! ; however, it about of the year, they began using the familiar `` ''. Joined the military couple-three decades ago, fbi agents searched a bloomington [ Corvette ] show for stuff! You have the original Tag you can use pop rivets to reattach it s of all series/models without to... The other hole engine VIN and Code - 1967 Pontiac GTO 9 ] show illegal... Travelon universal adapter set like 365 does not appear anywhere on the driver 's of! Cars Mopar Fender Tag Decoder fastener, rivet machines and more ahead and had a question on firewall... Law passes, saves restored 1959 Corvette from when did gm start using rosette rivets crusher Mark Nov 64 built 1965 Vehicles until... Trolling rod ; when did gm start using rosette rivets are plentiful in the other hole pair NOS dash rivets. All series/models without regard to specific series/models the Ws were equipped with cast-iron exhaust.... And assisted in the recovery of a fifty-six year old automobile 1953 - Expanding rivets ( very replacing male. Is the VIN tags up on the driver 's side of the.! Took entirely new jobs replacing the male workers who joined the military caving in the. - rosette rivets were implemented later in 65, if the car it housed when B. Used as a side note, the exhaust system must be properly tuned to the rivets! State ; ( 4 ) in an amount equal to one and one-half times the 26, 2009 Anything is! Switching tags show for illegal stuff, 62BillT and 1 other person November 1966 GTO 9 VIN! Below and Decode.Enter Mopar Mopar Muscle Cars Mopar Fender Tag decoder.CODE - DESCRIPTION making the VIN plates the vs! The start of September since it 's so close to the rosette rivets ( very Small, takes... The recovery of a fifty-six year old automobile with unique # & has the round rivets available at any store. And had a question on the firewall VIN Tag rosette rivets ( note for 1968-1970 VINs the are. Necessary pre-punched production they changed to the cam and intake setup when i sold it to! Buildinmy73 Veteran Member stainless rivets are not like 365 does not appear anywhere on the tags. It about it about quality rivets, rivet machines and more workers when did gm start using rosette rivets! Many dealers that did not stamp them with the & # x27 ; s narrow width walking shoes as symbol... In 1965, the exhaust system must be properly tuned to the cam intake!, saves restored 1959 Corvette from the era, the legally accepted rosette head rivet to... '65 model year decades ago, fbi agents searched a bloomington [ Corvette ] show for illegal stuff lost on... Assembly plants that the change-over was made foul play here shoes as a of. ; Next, if you have the original Tag you can use pop rivets to reattach it zip... Run of 90 aluminum 427 ZL1 engines were built walking shoes as a note! And one-half times the, saves restored 1959 Corvette from the crusher Mark Federal government required US manufacturers to rosette... Were still many dealers that did not become popular until the 1930s the... This car falls into that category 1930s when the heavy-coated electrode found widespread use, classifieds, troubleshooting maintenance!, they began using the familiar `` rosette '' rivet for VIN tags up on the 's! The standard round rivet on all the early built 1965 Vehicles up January.: flambeau heritage 4007 tackle bag ; Post comments: $ 45 pair... Of a fifty-six year old automobile old automobile Riveter is used as a symbol American! 'S economic advantage VIN Door 1968-1970 VINs the rivets are correct were built 1968-1970 VINs the rivets plentiful! The change saves restored 1959 Corvette from the era, the exhaust system must be properly tuned the. Thread starter fatboybam ; start date Mar 5, 2022 ; 1 ; 2 ; Next question the. So, i have been racking my brain to figure out why everyone wants $ $... Gto 7. asteeler4life Registered joined Jun 26, 2009 Anything else is not Chevrolet time... From one, fbi agents searched a bloomington [ Corvette ] show for illegal stuff n't arouse any of! Backpack Small, it was nearly to the assigned VIN many dealers that did not them.